Reigster now for free to join this or any of the thousands of ongoing discussions - Connect with thousands of athletes, post questions, share thoughts, find a training buddy,access triathlon training programs, marathon training programs and more!
Discussion: Bike Components
Subject: Bike Components By: Katie B. Written on: 2006-02-15 22:35:11 Message: Hi Everyone! I'm a new triathlete as I actually haven't done a triathlon yet. I've had a lot of experience with the swim and run portions, but biking is still very new. This past year I purchased a Specialized Dolce (51cm/52.5cm) to start training on. However, once I learned more about the components, I found out they were not that great (sora/tiagra). Now, I'm looking to start upgrading several of them over the next few months. I'll start serious biking after my marathon is over at the end of May. However, I was told that Ultegra would be the optimum to upgrade to. Which components should I look at upgrading first? How can I tell what dimensions the components should be (not exactly listed on the Specialized website)? Are there some that I should buy new rather than used? Can I upgrade derailleurs without upgrading the cassette/crankset? I'm very new at this and it has been a very steep learning curve. Any advice from experienced bikers is welcome. I'm planning on getting a professional bike fitting, probably aerodynamic fitting, in May. Are there certain components that I should upgrade before I have that done? Thanks so much for your help! Happy training!
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: John H. Written on: 2006-02-16 02:16:21 Message: Actually Dura Ace is Shimanos top of the line with Ultegra next then the 105. What I've heard was that the new Ultegras are very compatable to the Dura Ace so for the money that would be a good choice. You could do like some bikes and do a 105 and Ultegra mix, it works fine for me on my training bike (Felt). What do you want to do first as far as expenses? The high $ items first, that would be the shifters, casset, cranks and rear derailure. The Front derailure is fairly cheep. You could also buy the whole kit in one shot, probably close to 1 grand. Your bike shop should be able to help you set things up and suggest what to get. You could check out ebay if your trying to get an idea on costs but if you go through you LBS they'll be more apt to help you when it's time to install. Your fitting will have no effects on the components you buy so don't hesitate on that. Now here's my 2 cents, since you're just getting into tris, use what you have. Get a set of aero bars and do some races. If you find you like it and will stick with it then upgrade the whole bike. Better yet do what I did and buy a tri specific bike with the stuff you want (you'll learn more about the bikes as you get into it) then use your present bike as a trainer. The saying goes it's not the bike but the engine that drives it. Get good on the bike and the run transition before spending $. Congratulations, you've just discovered an expensive sport. The kind where your always looking for something better. Be careful with your money, all the trick stuff and fancy toys may work for the elite who are looking to shave a few seconds here and there but for us MOPs it only lightens up the wallet.
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: bob g. Written on: 2006-02-16 10:21:13 Message: right now, with all the new 10 speed ultregra and 10 speed dura ace kits coming on the market, ask around at a few LBS for the 9 speed group. My wrench showed me some 9 speed dura ace and ultegra for alot less than what it was a few years ago. People want the latest and greatest, but the 9 speed stuff is still very good.
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Ronald F. Written on: 2006-02-16 10:22:29 Message: Katie, I peeked at your profile and see you are planning on an Ironman possibly next year. I suggest that you save your money then get a tri bike new when you can. Just replace components that don't work smoothly for now and keep saving up. The most important part of the bike is you, so ride a lot, some long and easy, and some shorter speed workouts. Ron
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Steven R. Written on: 2006-02-16 10:26:49 Message: My 2 cents is that the bike you have is just what you need right now. I would get clip in pedals and an areo bar. I would stop there. You could spend hundreds of dollars to shave a few minutes off your time. Put the time into riding where the time gains will utimately come. Do a couple of sprints and if you enjoy the sport, upgrade the whole bike. Beware, an expensive bike does not equate into magical speed numbers. Hope that helps !
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Katie B. Written on: 2006-02-16 11:18:40 Message: I was under the impression that converting a road bike into a tri-bike was probably a good option at the moment. Is there that much difference between tri-bikes and coverted road bikes?
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Brad H. Written on: 2006-02-16 12:17:41 Message: Tri bikes are all about the aerodynamics (bike positioning). If I had to do it again, I'd buy aerobars and clipless pedals for the Specialized and just ride. It'lll do everything you need for now. A couple of years down the road, convert the Specialized back to your training / road bike and upgrade to a tri-specific ride. So many people think they have to have the high end stuff. Right now you just want to put on comfortable miles and have a little bit of an aero advantage. The Tiagra/Sora stuff is fine and still way better than anything you could buy 5-10 years ago. At the cost of upgrading to an Ultegra group, you could throw a few hundred bucks with it and get a good entry level tri bike (or a real good used one...) and be much happier (and cooler!) Remember, a real good rider could kick your ass on a Huffy.
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Andy M. Written on: 2006-02-16 12:22:36 Message: Katie, Dura Ace is in my opinion the best line on the market. Many pro's both cycling and triathlon run this group. It is also very expensive. A step down is the Ultega group, still very good but much less expensive. I think the questions you need to ask are, how committed to the sport are you; what are your expectations regarding your performance, are you a finisher, competitive or a contender; finally, how much money do you want to spend. If you are a contender and want to drop a couple thousand dollars, I would simply but a time trialing bike with a higher end group. You can do a lot of things to a road bike frame to make it more time trial like, but you can never change the frame geometery. A time trial bike has a more forward geometery that buts your body in the aero position and on a long ride is more comfortable than a standard road bike with aero bars. If you are unsure of where you want to go in the sport or you are like a lot of us, on a budget, I would upgrade the bottom bracket and drive train to 105 or Ultegra and put some a aero bars on and use that for the time being and save your money for a true TT bike down the road. I have found the best time to buy a new bike is to wait for the new model year to come out and then look last years model. Bike shops will want to clear these bikes out and sell them for a discount. Last spring I purchased a new 2004 Felt B2 for $3,200 when it originaly sold for around $4,100. Now this is a high end bike and discounts on bike retailing for less will be less. Hope this helps. Good Luck, Andy
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Jamie B. Written on: 2006-02-16 15:24:42 Message: You can convert a road bike with clip ons but the thing is you still have a wolf in sheeps clothing because in all essentials it is a wolf in a sheeps clothing. The geometries are totally different on a tri bike not just seat angles either. The top tube is short to make the cock pit smaller to allow you to be more over your aerobars.The head tube is steeper and cut shorter to allow you to get into a more aero tuck. Plus the big thing is the seat tube angle is steeper on try and that allows you to bend more and the hips then at the lower back but it also puts you a little more over the bottom bracket which incorporates more of the quads and gives you more power and makes you a little quicker but it also makes it a little easier to run off the bike. Not to mention the steering of a road bike is totally different than on a tri bike because of all these factors you are more over your front wheel thus cornering and descending become tricky on a tri bike! Now you can make a road bike into tri geometry you would need to drop the stem as low as you can get it and you would need to shorten the stem if you use a pair of clip ons because you need to bring your handle bars back underneath you so your elbows are under your ear when in the aero tuck. Second you would need to get a forward seat post so it can be swithced around to make your seat angle comparable to tri geometry. It still won't be the same but it will be close but all in all it will still feel more like a road bike than a tri bike which I am not saying is bad depending on experience and what all you want out of the bike. I am a manager at the number 3 Trek Dealer in America (Revolution Cycles in the DC and Northern VA area) and I have been fitting tri geeks and roadies on bikes for over 6 years and I have put over 50,000 miles on bikes in that same amount of time so I do have a little insider info and experience!! Now that being said components wise Ultegra is 90 percent dura ace!! It works just as well and the durability is the same the big thing is it isn't as light and has a different nickel finish. 105 also has a sweet 10 speed group out and it has the same warranty as ultegra and is just as durable! I know a lot of people who don't race anymore that say you don't need anything more than 105 unless you compete! There is some truth there but being in the bike industry and knowing how much people care about weight the Ultegra is the best of both worlds. Definitely buy it as a group because if you piece it out you will pay 30 percent more than all at once. If you have any further questions let me know I will be glad to assist you! j
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Jamie B. Written on: 2006-02-16 15:27:23 Message: PS katie I had 2 friends that ran track and cross country for Bucknell in the 90's. GO bison!
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Lauren M. Written on: 2006-02-16 17:01:40 Message: Isn't the Dolce a road bike? Don't spend your money on upgrading a road bike if your going to eventually buy a tri bike. I had the same problem. So, I bought a tri bike. I waited on got a closeout on the bike I wanted from last year. If you are going to upgrade think about your racing capabilities, are you a pro wanna-be? Or a girl who happy with a decent time finishing. Cause there is nothing wrong with middle of the road if it's the latter. What's it going to add like 5-10 seconds to your time? Big deal. Makes your transitions faster and you've made it up.
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: John H. Written on: 2006-02-19 18:01:34 Message: "Second you would need to get a forward seat post so it can be swithced around to make your seat angle comparable to tri geometry." Wow this coming from a dealer. Jamie I'm surprised you'd mention the forward seat post and I'll tell you why. One of the other differences that you didn't mention is that the tri bike has a shorter wheel base. With a forward seat post on a road bike you move the rider's weight forward as well. The road geometry is so that the rider's weight falls into a certain center of gravity (CG) both vertically and longitudinally. When you take a rider's weight out of the CG, control becomes an issue. Add that with the areo bars to drop you lower with you arms in a more narrow position and you may encounter problems. That is why the tri bikes shorten the wheel base by using shorter chain stays than road bikes. This keeps the rider's weight within a specific CG. I've known bike shops that'll sell you the forward seat post but not install them due to the liability issues. Get the aero bars and not the forward seat post. Look at all the ITU pros and they race a road bike with the aero bar setup (partly due to ITU rules) but not one of them has a forward seat post.
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Jamie B. Written on: 2006-02-19 22:27:54 Message: If you look at the ITU rules they all have road bikes and the aero bars are shorties because you are not allowed to have an aerobar that goes past the brake levers because of the drafting and it is illegal to have bar end shifters too. The reason the ITU pros don't have a forward seat post is because they still have to use drop handlebars and that would be very awkward to try to ride because your knees would be into your chin. Yes you do have some handling problems when you put a forward seat post on but I wasn't refering the one those eartic posts made by Profile I was refering to a Bontrager (standard seat post used on most of their high end bikes) one that can be turned either direction that only changes it a few degrees. That was a good point that I needed to clarify. I honestly think that converting a road bike to a tri bike is pointless because it isn't made for that just like you wouldn't go the other direction, but John if you look at where the CG on a tri bike is you are still way over your front wheel and it is nowhere near the CG that a road bike carries. You will have to trust me on this one I have gone to many fit schools and attended clinics on both subjects. Bottom line is a road bike has it geometry set up to put your weight more over the center and the rear wheel for handling where as a tri bike your weight is going to be more to the front of the bike. If you have any doubts on the fit though take a look at the Craft clothing catalog and on the front you will see Tim Deboom riding a Madone 5.9 SL (road bike) in Hawaii with a reversed seat post and Bontrager one piece aero bars dropped for aerodynamics. The two people who set him up were Steve Hed (Hed wheels) and Dan Empfield (Founder of Quintana Roo and now teaches his own tri specific fit clinic). So yes it can be done! http://web.sct.nu/referat/2004/hawaii/7.jpg it's not the best pic the one on the catalog is better j-
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: John H. Written on: 2006-02-20 17:43:57 Message: Jamie, Yeah I was thinking of the Profile forward seatpostwhich along with aero bars puts you in what I concider a precarious position. I guess you could tell from my post that I personally don't advocate such a setup. Thanks for the claification on your reference to the Bontrager seatpost. I haven't seen those but assume by the discription that they aren't as drastic as the Profiles. But I agree with you and others about not trying to convert the road bike into a tri bike. By the way the pic is a good one of Tim slipping into his shoes on the fly. Didn't he ride the TTX at this years IMH while Widoff rode an Equinox? That TTX is one sweet looking bike. Now that this post has gotten off the original subjet line, Katie I guess you know by now how everyone feels about upgrading components at this time. Save the cash and maybe Jamie will cut you a deal on one of those new TTX.
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Jamie B. Written on: 2006-02-20 20:46:39 Message: Yeah Tim had the only Equinox TTX which is the same type of bike built for Lance just with tri geometry. It is due out anytime after april. Widoff did also ride the regular equinox of which you can use a bontrager seatpost and flip it around to make it 75.5 degree seat angle. you can go to www.bontrager.com and look at the race x lite seat posts and see what I mean, but most bike and tri shops do agree that two different bikes for 2 different purposes. What I didn't include was the reason Deboom now is on the Equinox TTX is he didn't feel that he could get the desired comfort and control from converting a raod bike to a tri bike and it wasn't helping his running either. It is achievable for someone just looking to finish and needs a good all around bike, but for longer courses or more serious athletes it isn't advised. Nice talkin to ya Ron and hope the training is well! j-
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Jamie B. Written on: 2006-02-20 20:47:39 Message: Sorry my hand was going faster than my eyes I meant John!!
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Katie B. Written on: 2006-02-20 22:04:01 Message: Thanks to everyone for their input. As graduate student, there isn't too much extra cash to throw around. I thought I could buy the upgraded components piece by piece since it was going to take me a while to save up for another bike. I guess the later is probably the better option from everyone's comments. However, I do have one more question. I have a gift certificate for a professional bike fitting (Christmas present) at a really good bike shop in Madison. Since I will be doing a number of triathlons, should I buy a pair of aerobars and get the aerodynamic fitting or just get a road bike fitting? The original purpose of the fitting was to prevent injury as running has given me several. Again, thank you for all of your input! You are all so nice and helpful!
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Katie B. Written on: 2006-02-20 22:04:02 Message: Thanks to everyone for their input. As graduate student, there isn't too much extra cash to throw around. I thought I could buy the upgraded components piece by piece since it was going to take me a while to save up for another bike. I guess the later is probably the better option from everyone's comments. However, I do have one more question. I have a gift certificate for a professional bike fitting (Christmas present) at a really good bike shop in Madison. Since I will be doing a number of triathlons, should I buy a pair of aerobars and get the aerodynamic fitting or just get a road bike fitting? The original purpose of the fitting was to prevent injury as running has given me several. Again, thank you for all of your input! You are all so nice and helpful!
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Ronald F. Written on: 2006-02-21 00:05:49 Message: Katie, I would go with the aero bars, if your fitter thinks he/she can fit you with them. Also back to your component replacement, Dura-ace is best but I doubt that any of us could tell the difference between Dura-ace and Ultegra without looking at the name they are both great. Ask at your bike shop what they think would make the biggest improvement to your bikes perfomance. Ron
Subject: RE: Bike Components By: Jamie B. Written on: 2006-02-23 14:34:50 Message: Make sure that if you get the aero fitting and you go with aero bars that the guy who fits you is a tri guy or has a good knowledge of the set up. The truth is most roadies don't have the slightest idea of how to set up aerobars on a raod bike or a tri bike. At my store all tri bike fittings come thru me. If it is my day off 99 percent of the time has no problem leaving the bike overnight so I can properly fit the bike to them correctly. Like I said if they don't ride it they usually don't know it and most road guys have no idea where the elbows should be while in the aerobars to get maximum comfort and power. Same as if you wanted info on a Ford you wouldn't ask a guy with a Honda what the specs are!! The bike industry is becoming more and more event specialized as the tri industry grows and I constantly have to go to classes each year to learn new concepts on fitting, components, mechanical info, rack systems and fit plus whatever our store has training on. By the way I do notice the difference between Dura Ace and Ultegra but I bike 11,000-12,000 miles a year and after so long the DA is still just a crisper and more durable shift than the Ultegra.
Back to Discussion Index Triathlon Training  Triathlon Gear  Marathon Training  Health and Fitness